John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with the glory which
I had with You before the world was.
The Trinitarian Claim
Trinitarians interpret the text as indicating Jesus had this glory with the
Father before the creation of the world, he does not currently have this glory
because he had reliquished this glory, and he is asking to have it returned to
him. Based on this interpretation, they claim that Jesus existed as a
self-conscious person prior to the creation of the world. And as we shall see,
Trinitarians must also blind themselves to the evidence of the immediate
context.
Examination of the Claim
1. Trinitarian Eisegesis
It is somewhat understandable why Trinitarians interpret the text as they do.
On the surface, one could easily take Jesus' words as referring to something he
once had and no longer has. But it must be recognized that they are imagining
things into the text. They imagine Jesus is talking about a "time" when he was
with the Father in eternity and it was then when he shared this glory with the
Father.
2. "Before the world was" or "Before I came down from
heaven"?
Trinitarians take statements like "I have come down from heaven" at John 6:38
to mean Jesus was a self-conscious pre-existent being who came down out of
heaven about 2000 years ago into Mary's womb. A similar idea is promoted at
Philippians 2:5-11 where Trinitarians very often claim that the incarnation of
the pre-existent Son is when Jesus gave up this particular glory.
If a pre-existent Jesus had given up his glory when he came down from heaven
to be incarnated, and he is asking to have it returned to him, one would expect
him to have said, "Now, Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with the
glory which I had with You before I came down from heaven.
3. Jesus has given future disciples this same glory
At John 17:22, Jesus is praying for his future disciples. Many of these
disciples do not yet exist. But Jesus said he has given these future
disciples, past tense, this same glory. He does a similar thing when he says he
had already sent his disciples into the world, "Just as You sent me into the
world, I have also sent them into the world" in verse 18, when in fact this
occurs after his resurrection, "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you," and
He sends them by anointing them with the Holy Spirit.(20:21).
I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who
believe in me through their word....The glory which You have given me I
have given to them. John 17:22.
The Trinitarian interpretation is entirely inconsistent with all these
statements. If one wants to interpret John 17:5 to mean Jesus existed with the
Father before creation then one will also necessarily need to consistently
interpret Jesus' words in verse 22 as meaning we, his disciples, existed along
with him when he was saying this prayer. However, Trinitarians simply ignore
their own inconsistencies here.
4. Jesus speaks about this future glorification as if he currently has
it
Jesus was glorified when God raised him from the dead. So we know that Jesus
is not yet glorified when he is praying at John 17. For example, John says the
Spirit had not yet been given because Jesus was not yet glorified (7:39). Yet,
just as Jesus said he had already given future disciples this same glory, he
speaks of this glory as if it had already been given to him. On one hand, we see
Jesus praying to receive this glory but on the other hand he considers it to be
already given to him. John 17:22-24
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the
glory which I had with You before the world was.... The glory which
You have given me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as
we are one....I desire that they also, whom You have given me, be with me where
I am, so that they may see my glory which You have given me.
5. John 17:24
John 17:24 seems to clarify what Jesus actually meant in verse 5. Notice how
Jesus refers to having been loved "before the foundation of the world" but in
this same breath he also says, "my glory which you have given me."
Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me
where I am, so that they may see my glory which You have given me, for
You loved me before the foundation of the world.
Analysis of the Evidence
1. Evidence from Paul
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has
blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and blameless before Him. Ephesians 1:3-4.
God
has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but
according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ
Jesus before the times of the ages, but now has been manifested
by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 1:9-10
Paul speaks about something given to us before the creation of the world. It
had been given to us in Christ Jesus. It had been given to us. But that reality
only was manifested in our time and space at the appearing of Jesus our
Savior.
2. When Jesus was Glorified
Jesus was not glorified until God raised him from the dead.
But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were
to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet
glorified. John 7:39.
Was it not necessary for the Christ to
suffer these things and enter into his glory? Luke 24:26.
The God of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant
Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate,
when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:13.
There are also heavenly
bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and
the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the
sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the
stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the
resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an
imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is
sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is
raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a
spiritual body. So also it is written, "The first man Adam became a living
soul," the last Adam life-giving Spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:41-45.
These things his disciples did not understand at the first but when
Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of
him, and that they had done these things to him. John 12:16.
Now,
Father, glorify me.... John 17:5.
Jesus was not yet glorified when he was praying. But if Jesus did not have
this glory when he was praying, and if he was praying to receive it, and if he
was not glorified until God raised him from the dead, why then he was he
speaking about this glory in John 17 as if he already had it?
3. John 17:24 Clarifies Jesus' Intent
In verse 24, we find Jesus referring to the glory the Father had given to him
even though he is not yet glorified. He says, "the glory which You have given to
me for you loved me before the foundation of the world." These two verses need
to be carefully compared:
Now, Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with the glory
which I had with You before the world was.
v.5
My
glory which You have given me, for You loved Me before the
foundation of the world.
v.24
When we compare these two verses, the truth of the matter becomes very clear.
The man Jesus, who was praying in the garden, was completely aware that he had
been loved by his God and Father before the world was. He was the human Lamb
slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and this human Lamb was
foreknown before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20). Although he himself
was not yet glorified, that glory was given by the Father to his human son
before the foundation of the world. God the Father glorified Jesus when He
raised him from the dead and indeed, God was finished with all his work since
the foundation of the world (Heb 4:3). Jesus is saying that his glorification
was a done deal before creation because God the Father, in His love for his
human son Jesus, had purposed it to occur.
So will My Word be which goes forth from My mouth. It will not
return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I purpose, and without
succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11.
For we who
have believed enter that rest, as He has said, "As I swore in my wrath, "They
shall never enter My rest,' " although His works were finished from the
foundation of the world. Hebrews 4:3.
God fixes the times and seasons by His own authority. Jesus is fully aware
that his God and Father was finished with all his works when His Word went out
from Him and one of those works was raising Jesus from the dead into glory. What
God had already finished when His Word went out from Him, Jesus was about to
realize in this time and space: his glorification. It was finished in eternity
but now being manifested in this time and space.
4. Every disciple can pray in like manner
The new creation began when Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus is the
firstfruits of the new heavens and new earth. We will be glorified when we are
raised from the dead into glory. Let us suppose that any one of us, like Jesus,
is about to be put to death because we are followers of Christ. Let us suppose
we pray the night before our death. We could say, "Lord Jesus, glorify me with
the glory I had with you before the new creation was." Or because Jesus
had already given us this glory (v.22), we could use the phrase, "the glory you
have given me." And any future disciple could say this prayer because Jesus had
given it to his future disciple before that disciple even existed. Although the
reality of having received this glory is not yet a reality to any of us until we
are resurrected, we already know that the reality does exist and Christ has
given it to us.
Conclusion
A simple review of the evidence should make it quite clear to anyone that
Jesus is referring to something that was a reality before the creation of the
world. Just as it is a reality that Jesus' future disciples were given this same
glory before they even existed, Jesus was given this glory before the creation
of the world. Jesus speaks of having this glory before he was glorified because
having this glory was a reality before the creation of the world just as having
this glory was a reality for his future disciples before they even existed.
Jesus was completely aware that his God and Father had already finished the
act of giving the human being Jesus this glory before the foundation of the
world. His works were finished before the foundation of the world (Hebrews 4:3).
But because Jesus exists in this time and space, the reality of receiving this
glory had not yet occurred until he was raised from the dead.